Aug. 15, 2025
Cracking the Code on Pediatric Tic Disorders with Dr. Piper Gibson
Send us a text Discover how genetics, environment, and functional lab testing can uncover the real root causes of pediatric tic disorders and provide hope for families. Have you ever been told to “just ignore it” when your child’s health takes a sudden turn? That was the reality for Dr. Piper Gibson, whose son developed sudden and severe tics that conventional medicine couldn’t explain. Instead of accepting a vague diagnosis and a handful of prescriptions, Dr. Gibson chose to dig deeper. Wh...
Discover how genetics, environment, and functional lab testing can uncover the real root causes of pediatric tic disorders and provide hope for families.
Have you ever been told to “just ignore it” when your child’s health takes a sudden turn?
That was the reality for Dr. Piper Gibson, whose son developed sudden and severe tics that conventional medicine couldn’t explain. Instead of accepting a vague diagnosis and a handful of prescriptions, Dr. Gibson chose to dig deeper. What she discovered not only transformed her son’s health, it reshaped her entire career.
In this episode, you’ll hear how Dr. Gibson combines nutrigenomics, functional lab testing, and holistic protocols to help families uncover the true drivers of tic disorders, PANS/PANDAS, and pediatric neuroinflammation.
BY THE TIME YOU FINISH LISTENING, YOU’LL DISCOVER:
- Why tics and neurological issues are often linked to chronic inflammation and immune dysfunction
- How genetic markers like GAD1 and detox genes can guide nutrition and lifestyle changes
- What makes functional lab testing essential for understanding the whole child
If you’re a parent, pharmacist, or health coach who wants to go beyond symptom suppression, this episode will show you how root-cause care can change lives.
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00:00 - Introduction to Neuroinflammation in Children
01:57 - Dr. Gibson's Personal Pediatric Tick Journey
05:20 - Understanding PANS and PANDAS Connection
09:10 - Genetic Testing for Tick Disorders
16:08 - Environmental Triggers and Budget-Friendly Changes
21:47 - Limitations of Pharmaceutical Approaches
27:40 - Empowering Families Against Misconceptions
32:27 - Elite Gene Labs and Practitioner Training
36:26 - Final Message of Hope
WEBVTT
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Hello and welcome to Pivoting Pharmacy with Nutrigenomics.
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I am your host, Doctor Tamar Lawful, doctor of Pharmacy and Certified Nutritional Genomics Specialist.
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I want you to imagine this your child wakes up one morning with uncomfortable movements, twitches, tics, behaviors that seem to appear out of nowhere.
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You go to the doctor desperate for answers, but instead you're told to ignore it, that it's probably just behavioral, that they'll grow out of it.
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Now imagine being told that again and again and again.
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Meanwhile the symptoms persist and your gut is screaming.
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There has to be more to this.
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In today's episode we're diving into the world of pediatric neuroinflammation, tick disorders and the powerful role that genetics and functional lab testing can play in getting to the real root causes.
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My guest, dr Piper Gibson, is not only a doctor of functional medicine and nutritional genomic specialist.
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She's someone who's been in the trenches.
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She's built a system for families and practitioners to decode what's driving complex symptoms in children and how to start calming the storm from inside out.
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You're a pharmacist, parent or wellness practitioner.
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You're going to walk away from this conversation with real insights into the role of immune dysfunction, food toxins and DNA in neurological health and what to do about it.
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Listen in, dr Gibson.
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Thank you for joining us on Pivoting Pharmacy with Nutrigenomics today.
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You know your journey into functional medicine began not in the lab but at home with your son.
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Can you share what that time was like for you as a mom first, not just a clinician?
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Yeah, absolutely so.
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Yeah, I did not start out here.
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My son was diagnosed with a transient neurological tick over 13 years ago.
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So we woke up one morning after a trip to from to Disneyland.
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We had an amazing time when we came home and my son was just ticking and twitching and could not control his body movements.
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And of course we were recording.
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We were like what is going on, making video documentation for the pediatrician, and when we finally got in and got an appointment, we were told oh, it looks just like a neurological tick, we'll send you to the neurologist, but just ignore it, maybe he'll grow out of it.
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So that really sent us down the rabbit hole of trying to find answers for why this child seemed completely normal one day and the next day he just could not control his body.
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And so, you know, we saw our neurologist, who basically told us to our face that my son just needed a good spanking.
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And that moment really became a catalyst for me to go back to school and figure it out.
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We tried 10 different doctors, eight different prescriptions and I knew there were answers out there and I just needed to look outside of the box.
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Wow, so you definitely.
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That's a powerful experience where someone is, in one way, accusing you of not really being a good parent, Right, and then accusing your child of just being difficult for no reason.
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So that couldn't have been, you know, an easy thing to hear another professional say to you.
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But definitely you handle that well and taking the reins on your own and exploring what other options are there, because I'm sure you said you need to find another way, there's got to be another way.
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And how did you come across that other way?
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Yeah, so we started researching.
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You know I I now know I'm a research junkie, but we started researching, we started looking at everything that we possibly could surrounding ticks and Tourette's and really what we found was really disheartening.
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What we were really finding was, when it comes to tics and Tourette's, there's nothing you can do, just ignore it.
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And if ignoring it doesn't work, then you can take some medications.
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There were, at the time, a few outliers who were writing books and talking about diet and talking about how what you eat and your environment can definitely impact those tics, and so that really, for me, was the catalyst, because people there was a small subset of people that were seeing changes by changing diet, environment, and so that's really where I went back to school to just really learn.
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My whole first goal was holistic nutrition.
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I wanted to know how the food was functioning and impacting the body, but it really sent me down the rabbit hole for making the right changes for my son, and we did find a couple of really good providers along the way who could really kind of help, guide us and become mentors.
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But it was really a lot of me doing my own research, trying to figure out how to get him back on track.
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So from what you found in your research because I know many people are told that you know, tick disorders just happen or that their children will grow out of it but from your perspective, what's actually happening under the surface when a child develops ticks or a spectrum-like presentation?
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Yeah.
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So for years, we really attributed it to a dysregulated immune system and actually in 2022, there was a study that was released that says, hey, these kids that have tics and Tourette's have a dysregulated immune system.
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So we knew that immune system function played a huge role.
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But what we really see with the clients we're working with and with my son was this really aggressive underlying inflammation that was really driving this immune system response, and it was a matter of figuring out what are those driving factors.
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What is causing this dysregulated immune system?
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What is causing all of this inflammation?
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Now along those lines, because you often reference pans or pandas, what's First for our listeners?
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Can you explain what that is and then explain how do the infections and the immune response you refer to factor in here?
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Yeah, absolutely so.
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Pans is the Pediatric Autoimmune Neural Inflammation Syndrome.
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So my son does also have a PANS diagnosis.
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But really, with PANS we are looking at the fact that anything can drive that neural inflammation foods, biotoxins, fungus you know what are you eating on, what are you cleaning your house with Chemicals, toxins all of these things can really drive this PANS, this pediatric neurological issue.
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Whereas PANDAS very similar, but we know the cause of pandas is strep.
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So you have a subset of kids who have a lot of tics and OCD caused by the strep, and then you have another subset of kids who really there's no strep, but we're seeing all of this neurological inflammation caused by other factors.
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Wow, Now that's interesting because many practitioners are not looking for an inflammatory cause or immune response factor when it comes to tick disorder.
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Aside from the immune response or the inflammation, are there other overlooked root causes that are significant that you wish more practitioners were actually trained to identify?
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You know, we see a lot that sugar.
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Yes, we know sugar is inflammatory, but we know sugar can really dysregulate.
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You know that glucose regulation, the insulin, and so we do see kids who have tics and Tourette's who can be really impacted by eating these packaged, processed foods, where we're seeing this roller coaster of glucose and insulin and dysregulation in that hormone department.
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So there are a lot of other factors and this is why, with our clients, we're really digging in to figure out what's driving it, because everybody's different.
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I mean, we have kids who have parasites.
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Not all of them have parasites.
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We have some with parasites.
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We have a lot of them who have mold toxicity.
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They're living in a moldy home or attending a moldy school.
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We have a ton that have.
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Well, we'll just say, all of them have a dysregulated gut for some reason or another.
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So we are really looking at multiple factors and our whole goal is to really figure out what those multiple factors are for each individual and then give them a plan to get back on track.
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Thanks for sharing that, because this topic, it seems like it, can be very complex and interconnected.
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These symptoms truly are Along that lines of everyone responds different.
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We know that genetics can be a factor, and I know that you integrate DNA testing into personalized care plans for children.
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So what role exactly does genetic testing play in your work with tick disorders?
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Yeah, absolutely so.
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When we are looking at the genes, we're using nutrigenomics, so that impact of food on genetics, genetics on food.
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But what we are really looking at is we know with Tourette's that there is a possibility for genetic connection.
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However, they're not 100% sure.
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Is it one gene?
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Is it multiple genes?
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What's being affected?
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So what we are looking at is really starting to look at those immune system response genetics.
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So are you predisposed to chronic aggressive inflammation?
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So we're looking at a whole group of inflammatory genetics.
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We look at autophagy.
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We know these kids if they have poor autophagy then they're really not delivering the right nutrition to the cells.
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So we can work on poor autophagy.
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Then they're really not delivering the right nutrition to the cells, so we can work on the autophagy.
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We look at methylation, we look at detoxification, we look at neurotransmitters and mitochondrial function.
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So we're really looking at how we can take the genetics and compare it and contrast it to the other functional testing that we're doing.
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So we look at stool testing and heavy metals and mycotox testing and organic acids and we look at that and we really look for these different markers that.
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So, for example, an organic acids test is going to talk a lot about neurotransmitters which we can then go back and look at.
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Okay, well, you have an issue with GABA on your oats test, but you also have this gene for GAD1.
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That's going to really cause you to have a hard time to create the GABA that you need.
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So we're really using the genetics to compare and contrast and connect the dots for all of our clients.
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Thanks for explaining that.
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But once I work with genetics, with the genomics, nutrigenomic reports, I know exactly what you're talking about.
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But for those who this is probably brand new to them, what does all that mean?
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So if you find the GABA and you found that this, they have this variation, then what?
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What do you do with that information?
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Yeah, so this we'll just continue with the GAD1 gene Cause it's really going to be an easy explanation.
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But we know glutamine is a very abundant amino acid that is very abundant in the brain and we're using this glutamine to create GABA in the afternoons, gaba being very calming.
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And so what we're looking at is, let's just say you have this GAD1 variant gene, your gene is broken.
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Then we know that you end up with more glutamine in the brain and a harder time creating GABA.
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So you may have a harder time calming down at the end of the day or initiating sleep at the end of the day.
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Maybe you have some dysphoria.
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You know the people that the glass is just kind of half full.
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They kind of like your personalities and so when we're looking at that and we said, okay, you have this gene and we can see the impact on your organic acids test, we can actually change diet and nutrition to help with that.
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So, for instance, those individuals should avoid MSG, that monosodium glutamate, because it's very excitatory to the brain.
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So they're going to have a harder time breaking that down.
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We know that we can use things like kava kava to help calm that.
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Lithium, orotate, magnesium, elderberry all good things that we can use to start to calm that overabundance of glutamine within that GAD1 pathway.
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So it's really using different diet and nutrition techniques to give them optimal health from looking at their genetics.
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Lovely, lovely, and it's so powerful.
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So powerful, that nutrition component.
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Once we can tap into what, genetically, what they need, I absolutely love it.
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Now, what advice would you give practitioners who are new to interpreting genetic data, especially in a pediatric populations?
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new to interpreting genetic data, especially in the pediatric populations.
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Yeah, so I highly recommend find a mentor or somebody in your space who really knows how to connect those dots and help you understand.
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And I know that a lot of the genetics companies have some clinical advisors who will go over your genetic reports with you.
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But in my opinion, genetics, just like other testing, is not standalone and for me it's very important to be able to compare and contrast.
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So those in the pediatric space that are really looking to connect those dots, I think it's a matter of finding someone who's an expert in that field and really working with them to get clear on how you can utilize that information in your practice.
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Yeah, yeah, that's a great, that's a great tip, great advice.
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And I like that you're it's not one, you can't just look at one report and I like that you're doing organic acid testing and these got probably got microbiome testing as well, because we need to see the full picture so we can see the full person and really understand what's going on and what the next steps could be.
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Because without a full picture, you know we're only, we're only doing, we're only have one piece of the puzzle.
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Exactly, and that's that is really what I tell my clients is.
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We're just looking at one piece of the puzzle.
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I want all the pieces, or as many pieces as we can get, to put it together for you, and one piece is not going to cut it.
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Right Now.
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Dr Gibson, genetic insights are just one part of the story.
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I want to talk about the world of influences that switch through those genes on and off epigenetics, because we've touched on a nutrition component of things.
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Now what are some common environmental triggers that you see in your practice?
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Yeah, so when we're looking at, for example, detoxification, we want to look at detoxification genes.
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So, like GSTP1, we're looking at like how well you can detoxify within that the mucous membranes like to call it the snotty body.
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We look at CTH how well you're making glutathione.
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We look at GSTM3, you know how well you are clearing anesthetics and drugs from the neurological system and so you can really start to use those genetics.
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For example, you know, if you are working in an office building and your office is right next to the janitorial closet that's full of bleach and Fabuloso and all of these different chemicals and you have the genetic predisposition for poor detoxification, that could be one of the contributing factors to why you just are like, why do I feel so bad every time I'm sitting in the office?
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Well, it's possibly because you are exposed to this.
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Or you know we are looking at people who need to have surgery.
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You have a GSTM3, you're going to have a hard time detoxifying those anesthetics from the nervous system.
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We know there's things they can do to prepare in advance for their surgery, like glutathione IVs before and after.
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So we really can take a good look at our environment and our genetics and how they play together.
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Yeah, that's indeed we can.
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Now, when we're talking about our environment, I'm thinking from a parent standpoint, right, when they're told, well, the environment they're in may be affecting X, Y and Z, it could be overwhelming for them.
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Now they have to make these changes.
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There's an environment, then there's dietary considerations as well.
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So how do you help them navigate this without feeling that guilt or that overwhelm?
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Yes, so one.
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I've been in their shoes so I totally understand how it is.
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But I've picked up little tips and tricks along the way.
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So, for example, you know, we know eating organic is going to be better for you.
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But let's just say you don't want to go to the store and throw away all your seasonings and spices because it's going to cost you a thousand dollars to refill your spice cabinets.
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So, for example, you run out of, or get you run out of, regular garlic powder Next time you go to the store by yourself or getting a garlic powder and slowly start to replace those.
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And it's really very similar, for you want to get all of the plastic out of your house.
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You don't want to eat and drink and store your food in plastic.
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So you know, something we did was every time hydro flasks were on sale at the store, we would buy one, and so we would slowly build up our stockpile of hydro flasks, things that we could drink out of, that were safe.
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Pyrex is on sale.
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We're going to buy a box of Pyrex.
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So you know, making those changes over time may be a little bit slow, but it's going to be far more budget friendly, for sure.
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And then, with diet.
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You know we're really looking at with so many of our families food sensitivity testing and mycotox testing figuring out what is really the best diet.
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So of course we're going to give them recipes and guides and recommendations for recipe books and things like that to really make that transition easier for them to make the right diet changes.
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Yeah, I like that.
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That's a great great tip to just slowly get rid of what you have, what you're currently using, because, yeah, it's very expensive to switch to healthier versions of everything it is, it's very pricey.
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So just phasing that, phasing out the old slowly, absolutely Great advice.
00:18:12.832 --> 00:18:28.821
So we've gotten into DNA, we got the triggers, dr Gibson, let's talk about the glue that holds the approach together, and that's functional lab testing, which you have touched on briefly earlier, because, as we mentioned, you just don't rely on one test.
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You use the full body, systems-based view.
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How is it that these other tests can really help?
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Yeah, so when you look at a standard lab work that you may, you know, just get a couple times a year from your physician is, we know that with the lab work it can be really limiting.
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Labs make up their own reference ranges A lot of times.
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Vitamin D, for example, skewed very, very low because it's taken from people who are sick and so we see those numbers kind of trending down.
00:18:54.878 --> 00:19:00.944
So a lot of times when we're looking at your typical lab testing, it's diagnostic.
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We're looking for a diagnosis.
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Oh, you have heart disease or you have high cholesterol or whatever we're going to diagnose you with.
00:19:07.214 --> 00:19:12.454
When we're looking at functional, we're looking at how do we return proper function to the body.
00:19:12.454 --> 00:19:17.173
So you know we talked about looking at gut microbiome, stool pathogen testing.
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It's a great functional lab test because it gives us so many insights into the gut.
00:19:21.702 --> 00:19:24.018
What are your commensal bacterias?
00:19:24.018 --> 00:19:26.038
So your good gut bacterias look like?
00:19:26.038 --> 00:19:27.817
What are your bad bacterias look like?
00:19:27.817 --> 00:19:29.777
Do you have parasites?
00:19:29.777 --> 00:19:31.036
Do you have H pylori?
00:19:31.036 --> 00:19:35.069
We can look at inflammatory factors and digestive factors.
00:19:35.069 --> 00:19:43.692
So we can really get a good snapshot of what's going on in somebody's gut using functional lab testing.
00:19:43.692 --> 00:19:46.459
And there's so many other tests that we can use.
00:19:46.459 --> 00:19:56.715
You know, heavy metal testing, environmental testing, these kinds of things, but it really you can really start to connect the dots when you have a large amount of data on each individual.
00:19:58.818 --> 00:20:05.676
Yeah, as we mentioned before, the more information you have the better, so you can get that full picture.
00:20:05.676 --> 00:20:07.602
Thanks for explaining those labs.
00:20:07.602 --> 00:20:17.694
Now question the million-dollar question I have because these functional lab tests I think are truly valuable for practitioners.
00:20:17.694 --> 00:20:22.544
Why do you think that so many of them are left out of conventional pediatric care?
00:20:23.711 --> 00:20:25.194
I just think that they are not.
00:20:25.194 --> 00:20:28.482
It's because they're not taught in medical school.
00:20:28.482 --> 00:20:31.819
That's just not the traditional things that are taught.
00:20:31.819 --> 00:20:53.332
And so when you have spent a small fortune going to medical school and it comes down to it and your time and you're building your practice, it's like who has the time to go back to school to relearn a whole new set of testing, one and two, you're trying to run a really busy most of them are really busy practice.
00:20:53.332 --> 00:21:02.894
So I really think it comes down to the fact that there are a lot of things that we can learn that just are not being taught in that medical school situation.
00:21:03.696 --> 00:21:12.321
That's true, and I think that's why it's important that we take an integrative approach when it comes to the management of an individual's health.
00:21:12.321 --> 00:21:27.403
It takes a village I think I've mentioned this in, I think every podcast I'm talking about this but have that integrative approach where different specialties are working together to for the care of the patient.
00:21:28.570 --> 00:21:45.490
I think that makes a huge difference because I say all the time you know your gastro doesn't know what your optometrist is doing, your optometrist doesn't know what your podiatrist is doing and it's very disconnected, but you know.
00:21:45.490 --> 00:21:48.742
Same thing in my practice is you know I'm can help you with mold toxicity in your body, but I'm not the home mold expert.
00:21:48.742 --> 00:21:53.215
So we know we've got a referral group that we can send people to the hey, this is what's happening.
00:21:53.215 --> 00:22:03.666
You know you can work with this person or that person and so really incorporating all the different areas that make it such a holistic approach, True, true, I like that you brought that out.
00:22:03.747 --> 00:22:08.657
Yes, mold within the body, but then mold in a wall or shower different.
00:22:08.657 --> 00:22:10.741
We need that part.
00:22:10.741 --> 00:22:13.336
They're part of the team as well, definitely.
00:22:13.336 --> 00:22:26.413
Now, one area where this can really change lives is in helping families move away from medications that may not be serving them Tick disorders they're often treated with antipsychotics or other intense medications.
00:22:26.413 --> 00:22:31.652
So what's a standard pharmaceutical approach and what are some of its limitations?
00:22:32.272 --> 00:22:33.776
Yeah, absolutely so.
00:22:33.776 --> 00:22:38.233
There are a lot of limitations when it comes to medications that are prescribed for tick disorders.
00:22:38.233 --> 00:22:44.590
So we know, cincinnati Children's Hospital tells us medications prescribed for ticks do not cure ticks.
00:22:44.590 --> 00:22:56.416
So we have a whole set of parents who are going to the doctor and like, yes, we're getting a prescription, everything's going to change, we're going to be better, and then, wah, wah, they're never told medications will not cure your ticks.
00:22:56.416 --> 00:22:59.462
Rarely do they reduce symptoms more than 50%.
00:22:59.462 --> 00:23:02.980
So that you know there's still going to be apparent to those around them.
00:23:02.980 --> 00:23:06.714
Most of them are prescribed off-label.
00:23:06.714 --> 00:23:10.272
So we're looking at things like antipsychotics, we're looking at blood pressure.
00:23:10.272 --> 00:23:11.977
Medications are prescribed off-label.
00:23:11.977 --> 00:23:20.911
The kicker for me this is the kicker is that one of the major side effects of a lot of these medications is uncontrollable body movements.
00:23:20.911 --> 00:23:27.064
So we end up with this group of kids who already cannot control their bodily movements.
00:23:27.431 --> 00:23:32.492
And then they're given this prescription and mom's like it's worse, and I'm like, well, this is what they're taking.
00:23:32.492 --> 00:23:36.811
And so we know that those medications, in most instances, are not effective.
00:23:36.811 --> 00:23:44.259
A lot of kids will start taking them and then max out on the dose and there's nothing we can do after that.
00:23:44.259 --> 00:23:46.064
You're maxed out, we can't move.
00:23:46.064 --> 00:23:47.854
We could maybe try a different medication.
00:23:49.376 --> 00:24:16.425
Some other side effects are significant weight gain when we're using antipsychotics and, to be honest, I've had a lot of kids come through my practice who mom just does not feel like the medications are effective, which is why they've come to us, and so we're really looking at how we can adjust diet, lifestyle, nutrition, environment, everything to get these kids back on track while reducing inflammation.
00:24:16.425 --> 00:24:21.215
Our whole goal is to calm down the nervous system and so you can do it without medication.
00:24:21.215 --> 00:24:22.558
It's not overnight, it is.
00:24:22.558 --> 00:24:39.056
It is a process we look at about a year to 18 months, but we really, you know, as someone who's done all the medications and has studied all the medications, I definitely can see where we have so many people who are far more successful using the natural approach.
00:24:44.430 --> 00:24:45.291
Well, thanks for bringing that out.
00:24:45.291 --> 00:24:45.692
That's powerful.
00:24:45.692 --> 00:24:53.885
That's a powerful statement right there, and I'm sure there are probably some parents that come to you feeling like medications or at least maybe at one time and point, think of that.
00:24:53.885 --> 00:25:08.878
Medications were the only option and now you're able to help them see that there is another way and you can safely help them minimize the use of those medications and see some improvement in their children, and that's just powerful.
00:25:08.878 --> 00:25:13.592
I can just imagine how those parents feel when they start seeing that improvement.
00:25:13.592 --> 00:25:21.133
So your work definitely gives these families hope, probably during a time when they've lost that hope.
00:25:21.133 --> 00:25:31.790
So I want to talk about what empowerment really looks like for these families, because you've helped hundreds of families reclaim that power on the healing journey with their children.
00:25:31.790 --> 00:25:37.868
What misconceptions have you found are most harmful or limiting for parents of children with tics?
00:25:38.890 --> 00:25:42.596
Yeah, you know a lot of things that we are seeing out.
00:25:42.596 --> 00:25:52.772
There is one like us, you know, we had a doctor really allude to the fact that it was purely behavioral, and we know that that's not the case.
00:25:52.772 --> 00:26:01.692
But so many parents are really made to feel like it's their fault, that it's behavioral, that there's nothing they can do.
00:26:01.692 --> 00:26:25.519
And so when we talk about hope, I would say that the parents who are coming to us totally feel like they have lost that hope and they're constantly questioning their gut instinct because they're like you know in your mama's soul that something else is wrong, but you just are battered into this idea that it's your fault and that you know there's just no hope.
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